EPISODE 1 - Daddy, Baba, and Sam
Tyler Greene:
My family doesn't look like the ones I was taught to aspire to as a kid growing up in a small Midwestern town. You know, mom, dad, two and a half kids, Labrador, picket fence? My name is Tyler Greene. I am a gay man living in California. My husband is from China and we are raising a baby.
Tyler Greene:
Say hi.
Sam:
Hi Dada.
Tyler Greene:
It's beautiful. A little messy. And I've realized something. A family isn't something you just have, a family is something you make, people you choose and that's what this show is all about. It's called This Is My Family, and it's about building a life with the people we love. In each episode, I will talk to someone fascinating about family, how their family of origin shaped them and how they're building their own family now. I'll talk to drag queens, poets, professional surrogates and more. This week is a little different though. Before we dive into sharing stories of other people's families, I want to introduce you to mine, so that's what we're doing today. And, to help me tell this story, I'd like to welcome to the podcast stage, our senior producer and my dear friend, Tricia Bobeda.
Tricia Bobeda:
Hey Tyler.
Tyler Greene:
Tricia and I have been friends for a really long time and we work together in public radio. She is most known for here work on WBEZ's Nerdette podcast, and I go around telling everybody that I think she is going to be president of podcasts. But anyway, for this episode, Tricia talked to me, she interviewed me, my husband, and a bunch of other people in my life, to try to help put this story together, the story of my family.
Tricia Bobeda:
That's right. And like any good story, we're going to start at the beginning with you and your future husband Ziwu, so let's go back to the very first night the two of you met. It's Christmas break 2012 on the north side of Chicago.
Tyler Greene:
I was house sitting for a friend and he wanted me to watch his cat, and said to me, basically, you can smoke all the weed, you can drink all the alcohol, just don't invite anybody to my house that you haven't met before. I said, "Well, that's very easy," because it was Christmas, and I thought to myself, "I'm not going to invite any strangers over, why would I do that?" So the night that they left, I think, I invited my friend Paul over, who I knew, he's my friend from college, and we smoked all the weed and we drank all the booze. And OkCupid had gotten a feature on their app, it was basically Grindr before Grindr, and this person named Ziwu responded.
Ziwu Zhou:
He was just basically asking me to come over. But one thing caught my attention was that he said, "Okay, so I have a shower that's really nice, it has four shower heads and I will make you breakfast. What kind of eggs do you like? I'll make it." And so, I was sold.
Tyler Greene:
Around, I don't know, it must've been 1:00 or 2:00 in the morning, Ziwu shows up and I can recall it right now, he was wearing really bright white pants.
Ziwu Zhou:
Actually tan pants.
Tyler Greene:
And I was a little stoned, so I was like, "Wow, an angel has arrived."
Ziwu Zhou:
He was cute, and then we went inside. It was a really nice house. My first impression, "This is a really nice house," but I didn't know that it was not his house.
Tyler Greene:
I just remember feeling like he was energetically so different than anyone I had ever met, and I was just insanely curious about that.
Ziwu Zhou:
It was funny, because it was meant to be a hookup, but nothing happened. We didn't hook up. Nothing happened that night. The next thing I could remember is waking up the next morning and he led me to the shower. It had four shower heads, so he's not a liar. And I went upstairs and he made breakfast.
Tyler Greene:
He is not the kind of person who would, under any normal circumstances, come to a stranger's house at 2:00 in the morning. And so, the fact that he showed up, I think, is a little magical, to be honest.
Ziwu Zhou:
And I remember on my way home, on the train, I was texting my friend just basically telling her, "Hey, I met someone." And usually I don't say things like that, but for some reason I just felt something, I guess. It's like an indie movie, right? We are very different. Yeah, I don't think you can find two people that different. That's why we are attracted to each other, I think. We both have something that the other one doesn't.
Tyler Greene:
One of my friends called him the Asian Joseph Gordon-Levitt. He's just very handsome and cute and sweet and tender. He came at a time when I really needed, I think, something different. I think, something less crazy, something responsible. If you look up our Myers-Briggs or our Enneagrams, the first thing it says is, "Ooh. But if you're able to unlock that matching thing where you work with each other and minimally understand and hopefully also respect each other's differences, you can actually create something beautiful." I moved in like six weeks later to his apartment and then he bought a condo downtown and I stayed moved in.
Tricia Bobeda:
Okay, hang on. Pause things, please. Sorry. Just to clarify, you moved in together six weeks after you met?
Tyler Greene:
This is only a detail that other people bring up to me. I never ever thought six weeks was too fast. Let's just say, before this point, I had a history of getting into a lot of really fast-paced relationships. So when I found this person, when he appeared, in whatever color pants he was wearing.
Ziwu Zhou:
Actually tan pants.
Tyler Greene:
I just wanted to keep him. I didn't want to lose him.
Tricia Bobeda:
I guess that makes sense. And this was the first, big, serious, grown-up relationship that either of you had, which I'm sure was also really exciting. But it sounds like it was complicated by the fact that Ziwu, who was really close to his parents, even though they're very physically far away in China, they didn't know he was gay until he came out on a trip to visit them.
Ziwu Zhou:
I decided to come out because our relationship got serious. Before that, I had been telling myself that, "No need to freak anybody out if I'm not in a relationship. And not that I am actually in a relationship, I'm going to tell my parents." Finally, I told my mom. She said, "I don't know what happened and I'm so ashamed I could jump off this building right now," the hotel that we were staying at, that high-rise hotel. But it was really surreal. I told them about Tyler, of course, and so my mom thought that was because of Tyler that I was gay. I got so tired of it, and then one say I just decided to lie to them, basically that Tyler and I broke up. So I told my parents, "Tyler and I broke up." They were happy about it. They were like, "Okay, great. It's time to move on. Now you can get your life back."
Ziwu Zhou:
So there was a breakthrough moment in our relationship. Knowing Tyler, he gets really anxious about things. Whenever there's something wrong with you, like if you're sneezing or you're coughing, it would just be like, "You need to see a doctor immediately. I'll make an appointment for you. I'll make this happen." So what happens is that... so my left arm and my right leg started getting this tingly, painful feeling. I was diagnosed with neck tumor or a spinal cord tumor. So there was this egg shaped tumor, I think it's the size of an egg, so it was a pretty big one, inside of my spinal cord. I still have a scar. I have two nails in my spinal cord. And so, when I found out that I had this mass in my spinal cord, they thought Tyler and I broke up.
Ziwu Zhou:
So I had a decision to make, I can tell them what's really going on, that Tyler and I have been together, actually, all these years and we haven't actually broken up, ever, and I have this surgery that I need to go to, and you can come and take care of me or not. Or I can lie to them and just pretend everything is normal, going through the surgery by myself with Tyler taking care of me and tell them the truth the next time we meet. Right? I had a secret surgery. Spinal cord tumor removal surgery. Almost a year after my surgery I told my mom and, of course, they were crying. And I told them the story of Tyler taking care of me all this time, and that was the breakthrough moment, basically, I think in my relationship with Tyler and my relationship with my parents, because Tyler took really good care of me.
Ziwu Zhou:
Tyler is just such a caring person. He literally slept in my room, my hospital room for, I think, three days. And because of that, actually, my parents opened up. So yeah, it was a wake-up call for them.
Tricia Bobeda:
And that story, the story of his spinal cord surgery, his coming out, the two of you coming together, his parents coming to terms with all of it, you decided to tell it on stage.
Announcer/Art:
Please welcome our good friend and a great supporter of our program, Mr. Tyler Greene.
Tyler Greene:
Thanks, Art.
Tyler Greene:
That's right. I was asked to tell a story at Outspoken, which is one of my favorite storytelling nights. And for those of you who don't know what I mean when I say storytelling night, it's basically like stand-up comedy, but not necessarily funny, and it's one of my favorite ones because it features queer or queer-friendly storytellers. It felt less nerve-racking to get up and talk about our secret relationship and tumors and stuff when you're surrounded by people who love you. So I did it. I told the story and I got to the end, and...
Tyler Greene:
The hero of this story is not me. The hero of this story is my partner who, woo-ee, who went through this process of surgery, which is not why I'm getting emotional. That was tough and he did it and I'm proud of him. Part of the story that I didn't tell you was that he came out to his parents, who are from China, two years before this. They did not handle it well. One of the bargaining chips for his mother was that we had to break up or she was going to kill herself. Now, we don't know if that was serious or not, but you got to take that seriously. So we told her that that was what we were going to do. And they Skyped every week and I would go to the corner and sort of hide away, and it just happened that way for a year, and gave him his time.
Tyler Greene:
And about this last winter he went back to China and came out again to his family, and told them about the surgery, told them I had been living with him this whole time and that I was the one that was taking care of him. About a month ago, I was sitting on the couch watching Oz and he is on the phone or on the iPad with his mom, and I'm sitting there next to him, closer than I've ever sat when he's been in conversation with her. And he turns the iPad over to me and his mom is there. And through translation he said that she said that she was very proud of me and thanked me for taking care of her son on behalf of their whole family. So tomorrow morning, you can't write this, we are going to sign on our new home in Edgewater that is big enough for a little baby and hopefully a mother from the East. Thank you.
Tricia Bobeda:
Now, as Tyler's getting all this applause, his super introverted boyfriend Ziwu climbs up onstage from the audience and says...
Ziwu Zhou:
"I never thought I would cry, but I did. Tyler James Greene, will you marry me?"
Tyler Greene:
Yes.
Tricia Bobeda:
This is such a wonderful, magical moment in your relationship. It's in front of all these friends and we get to listen back to it, and you get to listen to it over and over, and we get to experience it right now. It's kind of cool.
Tyler Greene:
It's pretty awesome and I cry every single time I hear that story. It was such an incredible night and you never know how you're going to get proposed to, and I really wanted to be proposed to in a big romantic way, and he just knocked it out of the park. And then, our wedding was even more spectacular and epic, and one day I'll tell the story on the podcast, I'm sure.
Tricia Bobeda:
We're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, we talk about the next big chapter of Tyler and Ziwu's life, deciding to have a baby. We'll be right back.
Tyler Greene:
Hey friends, one of the first podcasts that features this story of how my family began to take shape was the one and only Risk!, hosted by Kevin Allison. Risk! is the show where people tell true stories they never thought they'd dare to share in public. Since 2009, Risk! has been featuring some of the most intimate, most radically honest first-person storytelling you'll find anywhere. People of all walks of life have come out about hilarious, moving, and sometimes extremely challenging experiences they lived through and transcended, the kinds of jaw-dropping stories people normally share with their therapists, and the kind of show that listeners say changed their lives. So be sure to listen to Risk! at risk-show.com, or wherever you get your podcasts. Now, back to the show.
Tricia Bobeda:
So not long after that onstage proposal, Tyler and Ziwu get married and then decided to have a baby.
Tyler Greene:
Yes, which is something that I never personally planned on for my life.
Tricia Bobeda:
But it sounds like Ziwu had always pictured himself being a dad.
Ziwu Zhou:
Yeah, I always wanted children. I always wanted a family. It's interesting, because how I pictured it when I was a kid, I would be straight, a heterosexual. Apparently, the part involved a wife didn't work out for me. But I wanted little, small creatures running around and destroying things and being cute, so it was never a problem for me, that decision had been made a long time ago. So, I guess, I just started to warm it up for Tyler.
Tricia Bobeda:
So Ziwu has Tyler on board for this whole dad thing, but now it's still going to take science fiction level technology and some luck and a whole team of people to make this baby, kind of a super hero squad. There's Tyler, AKA Daddy, special skills include project management, relationship building, and worrying a lot. Ziwu, AKA Baba, special skills include really wanting to be a dad, and expertly providing half of all needed genetic materials. This team needs an egg donor.
Jessica:
I am Jessica. I am Tyler's sister.
Tricia Bobeda:
Special skills include having Tyler's genetic code, more or less, having a bunch of really cute kids already, and living next door to Disney World. Next, we need a surrogate to carry the baby.
Emily Morris:
My name is Emily Morris, and I am a gestational surrogate for Tyler and Ziwu.
Tricia Bobeda:
Special skills include, being willing to have babies for other people while taking care of her own and being the nicest person on the planet. It's a super hero squad. All these people are super heroes.
Tyler Greene:
Okay. First of all, can we please talk about how it was your idea to do super hero squad. Then I was like, "Do the super hero voice." And you were like, "I don't want to do the super hero voice." And then, I made you do it, and you completely nailed it just now.
Tricia Bobeda:
I didn't know if I could do the voice.
Tyler Greene:
It's amazing. I love it.
Tricia Bobeda:
I guess the question now is, can I stop or will I need to do it for the rest of the episode?
Tyler Greene:
Oh, I super hope so. I think our listeners want you to, too. It's so fun.
Tricia Bobeda:
I don't think they want me to do that. I think I need to turn it down to seven from 11.
Tyler Greene:
All right. Fine. I'll be a professional podcaster. Here's a seven.
Tricia Bobeda:
Okay. So we've been getting to know Tyler and Ziwu. Now, let's get to know their egg donor.
Tyler Greene:
Right. So I have one sister, aforementioned Jessica. And one day I realized, I was looking in the mirror and we look almost the same. The only differences are that she has really long hair and boobs, which I, of course, do not have.
Tricia Bobeda:
And it sounds like your sister was really just waiting for you to ask you to help make a baby.
Jessica:
Tyler, Ziwu, and I were in Target on a visit and I remember them casually asking me if I would have their baby, and I just laughed and I said, "Of course."
Tyler Greene:
It was really that simple?
Jessica:
Yeah, it never crossed my mind to think about it. I've always been okay with it.
Tyler Greene:
So what was the hardest part?
Jessica:
Taking the shots was hard, because you had to take them at certain times and they just hurt.
Tyler Greene:
Explain the whole medical process. They sent you all these boxes. Right?
Jessica:
Right. Well, at the beginning I had to go to the psych counseling, and then following that I had blood work and ultrasounds prior to. And then, they sent me a giant box of medication. Then I had to go in and they told me which ones I had to take, when I had to take it. There was always shots in the morning and there were shots in the evening. At first, it was like once a week and then when I got closer, I had to go every few days to do ultrasounds to check to see how the eggs were doing, until they could tell me to take what was called my trigger shot, to make me release my eggs or make them blow up. My ovaries hurt really bad. But that was the trigger shot, was the last day, and then the next day I had to go in and they sedated me and took the little eggs out.
Tyler Greene:
Yeah, there were like a million eggs or something, a lot.
Jessica:
There was like 36 eggs.
Tricia Bobeda:
So you've got Jessica on board to be the egg donor, she's done her part. Ziwu's done his part. But now you need a place for this baby to grow. Tell me about meeting your surrogate, Emily.
Tyler Greene:
Ziwu and I went to this surrogacy conference. It's called, not joking, Men Having Babies, it is still around, and they do really great work. They have all kinds of baby making things to buy and hire and, specially, they have surrogacy agencies, who put up a bunch of tables and you walk around and they try to convince you to use them to help you find someone to carry your baby.
Tricia Bobeda:
So this is like a convention hall, but instead of swag tables with branded stuff, it's happy photos of very healthy looking people that all say, "This is where your baby can grow."
Tyler Greene:
Yeah, it's like gay man baby con.
Tricia Bobeda:
And there's brochures and logos on pens and this whole convention-y vibe.
Tyler Greene:
That's right. That is 100% right. I still have all of the pens. Anyway, so we went to that conference twice actually. And the second time was the real time, and so we connected with a surrogacy agency that time called Family Source Consultants. And we filled out some forms, basically, an application, and our only real request on the forms was that this person live near a major airport so that we could get there easily. And, honestly, at the top, we said, "We're not picky, but this person cannot be a Trump supporter," and that was like three years ago now. So we fill out the form and then one day we get this email from Family Source and they said that they found a match for us.
Tyler Greene:
We get on a Skype call and I remember seeing Emily and thinking, "Wow, she is incredibly young." And then seeing her partner Dylan and thinking, "Holy crap. Those are the biggest arms I have every seen on a person in my life." He has these big football arms. And I looked at them and I thought, "They could straight up be out of Friday Night Lights," or some sort of high school story like that.
Tricia Bobeda:
Where Emily is definitely the one getting tossed in the air and Dylan is the one throwing her as she spins around?
Tyler Greene:
Exactly.
Tricia Bobeda:
Yeah, they totally look like a college cheerleading couple.
Tyler Greene:
Yes. And then, they started talking and it was confirmed. They were the sweetest, kindest, nicest, most genuine people I have ever met. So we were really, really lucky and Emily and I have talked a lot over the years and we've had some really beautiful conversations about why she does what she does. And so, for this show, I thought it would be really important for people, for our new community that we're building to hear directly from, for all intents and purposes, a professional surrogate. So I called her up.
Emily Morris:
I have had two beautiful babies of my own and then I have had three surrogate babies.
Tyler Greene:
Do you remember the first time you were like, "I'm going to be a surrogate?"
Emily Morris:
I was so young, actually, I was 18 years old and I remember watching a surrogate on TV and I thought it was absolutely the coolest thing and I did so much research on it. Obviously, knew that I wanted to have my own children first, and so it was just always in the back of mind. And the second I had my son, which is my last, I started the process literally a few weeks later.
Tyler Greene:
What was it about what you saw that made you want to do it?
Emily Morris:
It was really cool. I saw her carry the baby and then it was kind of almost like a reality show, she handed it over to the parents, and just seeing the parents, kind of like an adoption, just how amazing it was. I was just like, "Wow, to be able to give that to somebody. I mean, what could be a greater blessing."
Tyler Greene:
We had this Skype conversation and I remember, from my perspective, I mean, I'm nervous all the time about everything, so it's no different, but I remember being like, "Wow, this is so, not foreign, but different for me," until basically Sam was born. But that moment, in particular, I remember seeing the two of you and being instantly at ease.
Emily Morris:
Yes.
Tyler Greene:
Do you remember how you felt during that call?
Emily Morris:
I do, too. It's always nerve-wracking. I mean, I was, obviously, my second time and I was still nervous to meet you guys. But I did. You guys were just so relaxed and so calm and you could just tell that you guys were naturally that way and naturally got along. And I always tell people, they're like, "Well, how did you know and how did you pick?" And you just know, you just get a feeling, and you just know that those are your people. And that's just how I always feel about it.
Tyler Greene:
How do you look at and define the relationship you have with us?
Emily Morris:
I personally like that you guys are just so real. You guys are just so open about your life in general and real things that go on, what you guys are doing for work, and if Sam is sick or what you guys are making for dinner, just such personal things. With you guys, I have a journey and a very personal relationship.
Tyler Greene:
So you had two babies of your own. I'm curious, the difference in the day-to-day, I guess, of a pregnancy of your own and a pregnancy for other people. Right?
Emily Morris:
Yeah.
Tyler Greene:
Are there differences?
Emily Morris:
I mean, it is different. When you have your own kid, you're not necessarily more relaxed, but you just kind of trust yourself more. When you are carrying somebody else's child, you have a little bit more pressure to, obviously, take care of that child a lot better. So it's not necessarily super different, but, personally for me, I definitely cared what I did, what I ate, I mean, everything to take the best care of your guys' baby.
Tyler Greene:
Yeah. There has to be difficult moments, obviously, it's a pregnancy, it's incredible beautiful, but it's also painful and there's certainly lots of difficult moments. If you were to share a difficult moment or two, does anything rise to the surface? What's hard about it?
Emily Morris:
Definitely. So first trimester is always a little rough for me. I know that I'm going to be very nauseous and possibly sick with vomiting, which is just very normal in pregnancy. But it definitely takes a toll on your body for those few weeks and I can't be as active as I would like to be with my own family, which I don't necessarily feel guilty about. I mean, they know it's part of the process. And then delivery, obviously, is very hard, I'm sure any mom will tell you that.
Tricia Bobeda:
Emily is the sweetest human, and I think she's being kind of humble about how difficult childbirth is. I have not had kids, but everyone I know that has a delivered a baby has said it's not incorrect what Carol Burnett says, "You take your bottom lip and pull it over your face," and that's what it feels like.
Tyler Greene:
Yup. Yeah.
Tricia Bobeda:
So Emily's there. You and Ziwu are there and, of course, Dylan's there in the delivery room. And you've brought along someone else who is very excited about this moment.
Tyler Greene:
Yes. My husband's mom, [Iping 00:27:57]. And she flew here from China a month before Sam was born, because she'd never actually visited her son, who had been here for almost a decade. And so we thought, "What better time for her to come visit us than right before the birth of her grandson?" So she flew here and met me and we hung out for a month, she cooked us three meals of authentic Chinese food, homemade dumplings, every single day. And it was kind of blissful, actually.
Tricia Bobeda:
And the due date is fast approaching, so the three of you hop in the car and road trip to southern Missouri, meeting up with Emily.
Tyler Greene:
That's exactly right. We chose to drive over flying, because it was only five hours away. So we packed up everything we needed, which we got from our baby shower, and off we went. We drove and, I think, all the way down I was singing show tunes at the top of my lungs and his mother was laughing. And I was like, "This is kind of beautiful, and so strange at the same time, this army of folks going down to get this baby." And then, we get there and we check into the hospital, we have dinner with Emily that night. We have some spicy food. And I say, "Well, the baby might come early." So we go back to the hotel room and we kind of hang out for a while. I fall asleep, then we get a text message, essentially saying that Emily is at the hospital and has gone into labor.
Tyler Greene:
And so, we went to the hospital at, I don't know, midnight. We walked up and buzzed ourselves in and it was me and Ziwu's mom and Ziwu. And we finally got in the door and they gave us a room right next to Emily. Everybody was actually very kind and very sweet. And we were next door neighbors, essentially, and we went into the room and Emily was in a lot of pain, she got the epidural, and I'm sort of speeding through this, but we're basically then all there. There's the doctor and everybody that we mentioned before.
Tricia Bobeda:
What an intense moment to have so many people surrounding you, for the birth of a child that is basically your job to have. Did Emily talk about that?
Tyler Greene:
Yeah, I asked her about that.
Emily Morris:
It's a lot more difficult, I feel like, pressure-wise to be a surrogate, just because I don't want you all to think anything is wrong with the baby or wrong with me or anything. So I definitely felt more pressured in the labor and delivery room to make you guys be at ease, even if I was in pain and stuff, so that was definitely different.
Tyler Greene:
Yeah, and grandma was there, too.
Emily Morris:
Yes, but she was so wonderful. She was the first person to come ask me if I was okay, and that's just a moment I will treasure forever. She had a new grandbaby just sitting right there, and she came up to me, the very first, and just asked if I was okay. And I think she probably witnessed what I just went through and knew.
Tyler Greene:
She was very connected to you in that moment. I could feel it.
Emily Morris:
Yes, yes.
Tyler Greene:
It was really sweet.
Ziwu Zhou:
I remember my mom was being really super respectful. She was crying. She told me that she felt really bad for Emily, also. I mean, she delivered me and she knew how that's like. So I remember Sam looked up and saw Tyler, it was so sweet. It was really sweet. And it's like your life just changed forever in that moment.
Tyler Greene:
And, in hindsight, Tricia, having grandma there and having Dylan there. I mean, Dylan shot all the footage, and months later I found out that Ziwu's mom has this video of Sam screaming the second he was born. And so, just having those two technological pieces alone, not to mention the fact that I got to do skin to skin contact with my son, and his grandma was there, and these other two people. And then, we were able to give Sam to Emily right away. And a lot of couples chose to just sort of whisk the baby away, and there's no judgements about that, of course, but she's family now, and so we really wanted to share that with here, not cut her off of that.
Tricia Bobeda:
What an incredible, selfless group of people who worked together to make this beautiful baby, Sam.
Tyler Greene:
That's pretty awesome. I got to say, anytime I think about any one of them in this context, especially this night for more than a few seconds, I start to lose my shit, because he is here now, and every day he's so stunning and a different human every day. And pandemic life is monotonous and super scary and tests the nerves of even the calmest person, which we've covered many times, I am not.
Tricia Bobeda:
Yeah, you are not.
Tyler Greene:
Sam is just this living, breathing reset button that sits in the corner and makes it all better, even if he's screaming, which he is a lot lately. I can't even begin to articulate in words, the gratitude that I have this insane team of people.
Tricia Bobeda:
And Sam is about 19 months old now. A lot of his life has been in this pandemic that you mentioned. And I wanted to talk to you and Ziwu more about that. What's it's like now being Daddy and Baba, being parents in the pandemic?
Tyler Greene:
We are very tired, and that is, I think, real for everybody these days. This week, we have Sam home from daycare. Our daycare's taking a must deserved vacation. I can't imagine taking care of seven of them. And we've got this superstar child who's so expressive and sweet and funny. But man oh man is the struggle real.
Tricia Bobeda:
Okay, what are the best parts about raising a baby and what are the hardest parts about it, besides, I guess, not sleeping ever?
Ziwu Zhou:
The best part is he is so cute and I love him. He has really fat cheeks, still. Not as fat, but I'm a cheek person and I just love big cheeks. And so, every time I see his face, I just feel this warm, fuzzy feeling.
Tyler Greene:
Ziwu used to bite my cheeks in the beginning of our relationship.
Ziwu Zhou:
I don't do that anymore-
Tyler Greene:
He doesn't do it anymore.
Ziwu Zhou:
... because I have Sam now.
Tyler Greene:
Wow, I'm replaced. He is adorable and just beautiful. Right? Today we were out in the park, me and him, just by ourselves and he held me little finger and he was walking with my finger. And then an airplane came into the sky and he goes, "Bird," and it's just shit like that. It's great. But then, at a certain point, it's like, "What new things are there to do in the world?" You sort of run out of things a little bit. I mean, they find something new in everything. But I think we, as adults, we don't see that. So it's like-
Ziwu Zhou:
The same routine every day. I catch myself standing in front of the kitchen sink and doing dishes just all the time. It seems like I spend two hours doing that every single day. And then, I stand there and I was like, "Didn't I just do this 15 minutes ago? Was I doing the same thing at the exact time yesterday?"
Tyler Greene:
It's so interesting, though. All of the cliches are 100% true, so when I get up in the morning and I'm laying in bed and I'm like, "Oh, this is nice, relaxing." And then you hear, "Waaahh." I mean, and you see him and you instantly melt and you're like, "Oh god, 10 hours of this," never occurs to me. What occurs to me is I'm exhausted.
Ziwu Zhou:
Until 10 hours later.
Tyler Greene:
Until 10 hours later.
Ziwu Zhou:
And then we realize that it's been 10 hours.
Tyler Greene:
Yeah, exactly.
Ziwu Zhou:
It's actually more than 10 hours.
Tyler Greene:
Great. I'll probably remember that now, tomorrow.
Tricia Bobeda:
And so, when you think about the future with Sam, what are the things you're the most excited about?
Ziwu Zhou:
So I already have a plan for him. Right? I'm a Chinese parent. So he's going to be on Disney Channel, and he's also going to have a side gig of being a model or a musician. Tyler and I thought about this. Sam, actually, is very, very interested in music and dancing. He does that all the time. He actually started doing that from a very early age, as soon as he could stand up.
Tyler Greene:
But I asked my sister if her kids did that and she said, "All kids do that," so I don't know. I hope that it stays, because I would love nothing more than for Sam to be a little Broadway baby.
Ziwu Zhou:
It's always nice to hear that your child is not special.
Tyler Greene:
I know, right?
Ziwu Zhou:
Even though you would like to think that-
Tyler Greene:
I know.
Ziwu Zhou:
... he's so talented.
Tyler Greene:
I was like, "Can't you just lie to us."
Ziwu Zhou:
Every child is like that.
Tyler Greene:
Yeah, you're joking and you're not, actually. So he definitely-
Ziwu Zhou:
I'm an overachiever.
Tyler Greene:
Yeah, I mean, you definitely want him to go to Harvard. You've said that hundreds of times.
Ziwu Zhou:
MIT is fine, too.
Tyler Greene:
I'm cool with Kalamazoo College, but it's cool. I mean, that is one of the things that I'm excited about and one of the things that scares me, and I think that's common for every parent. It's like, he's going to turn into his own person, right, with his own likes and dislikes, and if we do our jobs right, he's going to be a combination of both of us. So there's no question he's going to love music.
Tricia Bobeda:
Yes, and probably be sneaking out to go to concerts and all kinds of other things. And that's maybe a fun worry about him growing up and being a teenager, but I wonder, in a bigger picture way, what do you worry about for his future?
Ziwu Zhou:
There are people who don't believe in science and I'm like, "Wow. If you don't believe in science, how I'm going to talk to you?," which is scary. I just think then, "Is Sam going to be confused growing up in this world?" I worry that he's not going to be happy.
Tyler Greene:
So I'm always afraid that my anxiety, my fear, my depression, if Ziwu and I are in an argument or some shit has happened in the news, I worry that he's going to absorb all that. And scientifically and biologically, it's proven that actually babies do, and that's why people say it's inevitable that you're going to fuck up your kid. Right? Because that is unavoidable. You can't not experience fear. But what I think it really going to be an interesting journey for the two of us is how do we take our individual values, what matters to us individually, and find a way to come together and then translate those values to our kid. Because Ziwu and I are, I'm an INFJ and he's an ISTP, so he's very rational, I'm very emotional. And so, together, I hope we're able to create this human who's deeply caring, but also logical, and able to be fair to people and be concerned with justice.
Tricia Bobeda:
We talked about that a lot actually at the start. Right? At the beginning of your relationship, you realized how different the two of you were, and I'm wondering how Sam has changed that relationship. What has it made you learn about each other?
Ziwu Zhou:
It brings us together, I feel like, because Tyler and I have to, being parents, we have to work as a team.
Tyler Greene:
It's something that we had to learn. Right?
Ziwu Zhou:
You have to make it work not just for your child, but for yourself. You're going to lose your mind if things don't work. So I feel like we've figured it out. Right?
Tyler Greene:
I mean, I think we're in the process of figuring it out. Yeah, I think that we just have to be honest and we have to negotiate and we have to say what's on our mind and, also, on top of all of this, there's a pandemic. And so, it's like, it's not normal right now. And it's actually pretty depressing on a lot of levels. And so, there's also this radical acceptance of where the person is at. And also, by the way, Ziwu and I moved our entire lives from Chicago to California in February for a job opportunity that Z got. We were the first county to close in the country, Santa Clara County. And then everything... and I remember thinking, "This is going to be over soon. Right?" And then, it's not going to be over soon. It's not going to be over for a very long time. The fact that any two people who have an infant have not murdered each other or another human.
Ziwu Zhou:
I know.
Tyler Greene:
It feels like a win, minimally, right there.
Ziwu Zhou:
I'm actually very surprised, too.
Tricia Bobeda:
Well, I am also very glad that no one has been murdered in the sleepless pandemic that you two are living. And, I'm curious, thinking about that, about what these last 19 months have taught you about being a parent, has it changed the way you think about your own parents?
Tyler Greene:
So I think I have a decent relationship with both of them now, which I'm thankful for. And I do wonder sometimes, "Wow, they did this with me," and it's such a strange feeling. It's a very strange feeling, because then you're like, "Wow, I'm old. I've been on this earth for a long time." And then you're like, "Man, human beings are miraculous." I mean, it's just kind of wild. And so, yeah, my parents both made mistakes, but at the end of the day they're human beings doing the best they can with what they had. And so, yeah, I'm much more compassionate to them, and I am aware that I am my mother and father's son. So now I see them and I see the things they do and their behaviors that annoy me, and I see them in myself. And then, I'm probably going to pass them onto my kid, as much as I don't want to. That's just the way that it works.
Ziwu Zhou:
Just try not to.
Tyler Greene:
Wow. That is not nice.
Ziwu Zhou:
No, well, that's what life is about. Trying.
Tyler Greene:
There's good things too though, right?
Ziwu Zhou:
No, no, no. Yeah, yeah.
Tyler Greene:
I never thought I was going to have kids at all, so a lot of this stuff still feels even newer to me. I wasn't daydreaming about having babies, necessarily.
Ziwu Zhou:
Our parents were figuring things out by themselves, too, because they probably didn't know what they were doing, also. Not 100%, at least. Nobody knows 100%, as a parent, what they are doing. I feel like my parents are now softer, for lack of a better word. When I talk to them, I just feel like their attitude and they way they talk is just really gentle.
Tyler Greene:
Yeah, one of the things that's been really beautiful about this time period is Sam gets to see his grandma-
Ziwu Zhou:
FaceTime.
Tyler Greene:
... every day. It's really nice. Granted, it would be great if she was here, because then we could sleep, but we can't really do that right now, so it's the next best thing.
Ziwu Zhou:
Now, because I FaceTime my mom every day, my dad actually used to get up pretty early and go to work and he now changes his schedule so he could stay a little bit late and see Sam, also. I think he's getting a little jealous that my mom's getting all the attention.
Tyler Greene:
That's awesome.
Tyler Greene:
And that's our episode. Special thanks this week to David Fink and Ray Teresi from Outspoken for allowing us to air a section of my story. You can follow us on social media to see my ridiculously adorable son Sam and pictures of me cooking lots of Chinese food. The podcast is on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook @TIMFshow and TIMFshow.com. I am @storyproducer on all the things. This show is a production of thestoryproducer.com and it's produced by me Tricia Bobeda and Jackie Ball. Adam Yoffe is our editor and also mixes the show. Our community manager is Anika Exum. Our music is by Andrew Edwards of Blue Police Box Music, and our art director is my handsome husband Ziwu Zhou.
Tyler Greene:
If you're digging the show, please, please, please tell a friend, coworker, neighbor, person at the grocery store. Help spread the good word. We need your good vibes. It also really helps us if you leave all the stars and a review on Apple podcasts. As a reminder, you will hear lots of bits and pieces about my family in upcoming episodes, but this show is normally me interviewing other people about their families, how they build them, and how they're shaped by them. Hopefully, by starting this way, like we did today, you feel like you know me a little bit better and where I'm coming from.
Tyler Greene:
Next week, we're kicking things off in a major way with my favorite drag queen, the iconic star of RuPaul's Drag Race and someone who has a fascinating family story, origin, chosen, and otherwise, Latrice Royale.
Latrice Royale:
Drag family's when you're young and you're getting kicked out or you're being outed, whatever, and exiled from your family, and there's a matriarch or a person who takes you under their wing, and usually that's what you call your mother.
Tyler Greene:
I am so excited for all of you to hear our conversation. It was truly one of the highlights of my life. Thanks again for listening to the first ever episode of This Is My Family. I'm Tyler Greene.
Tyler Greene:
Is the podcast all done, Sam?
Sam:
All done.